Curse

Accolon Pendragon · Jun 09, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Alas you may be right, but WHY the HELL would anyone want to be a master of the infusion run??????

The Football comparions doesn't fit, you got good at football, the pitch doesn't change, the game rules are fixed and the majority of stratergies are know, in GW the pitch does change, and so do the rules from area to area. Admittedly you do have to put the hours in to get good, but the hours to get good at PvP have to be spent in PvP not PvE. I know this and I don't even PvP. As for PvE once you know what spawns in an area it is easy to adjust skills then run through it, 1-2 attempts, but re runs of the same area is not going to improve your overall skill, just how good you are at that area.
Actually having you have to change areas and skills and not farm the same areas is more likely to improve your skills.
If its too easy, go out with a smaller party, do the areas before you ascend rather than after (kryta).
The game is supposed to be fun, If you want it harder, play the entire game with Henchmen and have one single rule. If you die delete character as it is dead and start again.

I agree with everything here. The first couple of times I played PvP I received some serious trashing because I was used to PvE and I found out that builds that worked for PvE don't work for PvP and vice-versa.

It's also true that nothing beats a really good party but sometimes it's just easier to get it done with henchmen...

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Can we stop with the "making it easier" stuff, please? Most gamers I know enjoy a little challenge every now and then.

Not this stupid crap again.

Grinding through hordes of brain-dead cattle is not a challenge. It does not require strategy, and it does not require skill. A chimp with a half hour of training could do it. A "challenge" is defined as a test of your abilities or resources in a demanding, stimulating undertaking. Elite skill runs do not fit any part of that definition, because they are only a test of how much time you are willing to throw away for that elite.

"Earn it", hah. Is that what you call it when a dog waits under the table for hours until someone throws him a scrap?

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I knew enough about computers and how search engines worked to manipulate them for my usage...

What more could school possibly teach you? To obey?
Its getting pointless. Stop this "Blood. pain. Strength" Nonsense and cure cancer please. I dont care wether you "earned" it, and i doubt anyone affected would care.

Its sad when people think that intelligence is memorizing a lexicon.

You can learn pvp by doing pvp. If you try to counter them, you will lose. because they are not stupid, they KNOW your countering them. You need to outsmart them. This, repetition wont teach you. You outsmarted school ... and failed to learn the lesson

[Note that the praise is based on your virtual claims. i dont care wether they are true at all]

ElevenBravo · Jun 09, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

This patch, no doubt, does make the game easier. no big deal, I still enjoy it. Those people complaining before the patch where all the pvp leet kids who had to have all their skills NOW. Not in 2 days, not in 2 missions, but NOW. And this was the response to them. Im married with a house and full time job but running around capture signets wasnt that hard or time consuming. Doing 5 infusion runs wasnt that hard either. And it didnt take that long. I did 4 in one night of only playing for a few hours. If it was hard for you, you just suck.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Not this stupid crap again.

Grinding through hordes of brain-dead cattle is not a challenge. It does not require strategy, and it does not require skill. A chimp with a half hour of training could do it. A "challenge" is defined as a test of your abilities or resources in a demanding, stimulating undertaking. Elite skill runs do not fit any part of that definition, because they are only a test of how much time you are willing to throw away for that elite.

"Earn it", hah. Is that what you call it when a dog waits under the table for hours until someone throws him a scrap?

you shouldn't be playing guild wars....you should be playing Counter Strike or Unreal.

GW is an RPG....you're supposed to be rewarded for building up your character. If you want to test your skill go play CS.

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

Grind lovers.... nice, real mature.....

How bout RPG lovers vs. FPS lovers LOL

That’s really what it is, no self respecting RPG lover worth his salt would want everything handed to him, and no self respecting FPS player would expect to have to earn it.

I love RPGS, and if you ever put me, or any of the great games in this genre, even close to the word "grind", then the wrath of "random deity" shall strike thee down!

Btw, i do think that the "Grind Wars" are more enjoying atm... until they fix the game, that is

Stur · Jun 09, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Is that what you call it when a dog waits under the table for hours until someone throws him a scrap?

No that discribes most of the leet PvP gods we have around here when it comes to getting elite skills.

Epinephrine · Jun 09, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

How is it "earning" anything to do runs over and over. If I can demolish an area once solo I can do it 100 times. That's not "earning" anything, that's just wasting my time. Getting things as reward for finishing new areas, unlocking things as a result of accomplishment is fine. Being forced to "earn" your runes by doing crap over and over is something only a grinder would love.

Creston · Jun 09, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Not this stupid crap again.

Grinding through hordes of brain-dead cattle is not a challenge. It does not require strategy, and it does not require skill. A chimp with a half hour of training could do it. A "challenge" is defined as a test of your abilities or resources in a demanding, stimulating undertaking. Elite skill runs do not fit any part of that definition, because they are only a test of how much time you are willing to throw away for that elite.

"Earn it", hah. Is that what you call it when a dog waits under the table for hours until someone throws him a scrap?

Have you ever considered anger management? Or is the mere NOTION that *gasp*, not everyone shares your opinion really that difficult to comprehend to you?
Btw, how's your Internet connection from china, since you obviously have never heard of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Opinion?
Oh, and I'm STILL waiting for you to show me where I said I loved grinding. Kinda hard when people ask you to prove something, isn't it?

Creston

Edit : Btw, let me throw some suggestions in here to fix this Pve vs PvP dilemma. I see a lot of people already mentioning the "unlock all skills" option, so apparently that's been going around for quite awhile, and is not considered a valid option. (In my opinion, if you're hardcore PvP, how ELSE would you ever have a fair match, unless both sides have exactly the same skills?)
So how about being able to unlock skills based on the amount of wins / fame / rank you have?
gain a new rank (not quite sure how that goes up), you can unlock five more skills / weapons / runes, whatever.

Since I saw Anet talking about working to improve matchups between opponents (so that some uber PvP guild with zero losses doesn't take on a newbie guild, I assume), why not extend that further, and have teams with the same rank (give or take 2 or so) battle each other. That way you can be fairly certain that you have approximately the same level of power / items etc, since the game seems well balanced between classes. That way, the PvPers don't have to grind (which I can understand that they say they have to do it now), they can earn more skills by actually being succesful in PvP. Wouldn't that be a much better option?
How many of the hardcore PvP crowd even ENJOY the PvE part, anyways?

Such a system would also stop Anet from making PvE changes (to the detriment of the PvE focused players) to benefit the PvP players.

I still don't quite understand why they ever thought it was a great idea to connect the two in such a fashion anyways. It's like playing a multiplayer game, but you only get weapons if you've gotten to them in single player?

Does anyone have some constructive opinions on that?

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

How is it "Earning" anything to do runs over and over. If I can demolish an area once solo I can do it 100 times. That's not "earning" anything, that's just wasting my time. Getting things as reward for finishing new areas, unlocking things as a result of accomplishment is fine. Being forced to "earn" your runes by doing crap over and over is something only a grinder would love.

Enduring the grind is the challenge. Sad, so sad.

Kishin · Jun 09, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

Grind lovers.... nice, real mature.....

How bout RPG lovers vs. FPS lovers LOL

That’s really what it is, no self respecting RPG lover worth his salt would want everything handed to him, and no self respecting FPS player would expect to have to earn it.

Learn to be civil. I've played far more PvE than I have PvP at this point, and while I'm enjoying it, I'm disgusted with the attitude of PvErs who think they're some sort of higher life form when compared to PvP players, who apparently do nothing but drool incessantly as they furiously hammer the fire weapon command.

Believe it or not, and this may come as a shock to you, PvP players do not want easier unlocking of skills and runes so they can make teh Ubar p0wnzer of worlds. They want a competitive balance. Right now, what gear you have available can and does affect how you stack up in PvP. If Joe Air Elementalist has a Superior Air Rune and Steve Air Elementalist doesn't, then guess what? Steve is at a disadvantage against Joe if their two teams ever meet in combat, as Joe's abilities are now more damaging and thereby more effective, and no matter how good a player Steve is, barring the fact that Joe is an idiot, he cannot make up this numerical difference.

Then again, if Joe and Steve both have access to ability to maximize their numerical potential, then the ONLY thing that separates them is pure SKILL.
Personally, its a bit more rewarding to say you won because you're good at what you do, rather than you won because you happened to have a better rune/weapon mod/monkey defibulator than your opponent did.

In short, PvP players don't want everything handed to them. They want a fair competition, where skill (both at playing and building chars) is the deciding factor, not item.

Madjik · Jun 09, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you shouldn't be playing guild wars....you should be playing Counter Strike or Unreal.

GW is an RPG....you're supposed to be rewarded for building up your character. If you want to test your skill go play CS.

Actually, this game is supposed to be about skill, it's always been advertised as such. Reward for building your character fits most MMO's out there, but this one was never really part of that catagory. This is partly why the lv cap is 20.

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you shouldn't be playing guild wars....you should be playing Counter Strike or Unreal.

Well I can really see what a pillar of mental acumen you are, what with you repeating the same invalid rhetoric into infinity, waiting for it to be true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

GW is an RPG....you're supposed to be rewarded for building up your character. If you want to test your skill go play CS.

And here's the kicker. You've been playing this game for who knows how many weeks and it still hasn't hit you: The game's about skill. That's the test. That's the challenge. Not how many hours you have spent playing whack-a-mole.

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

Learn to be civil. I've played far more PvE than I have PvP at this point, and while I'm enjoying it, I'm disgusted with the attitude of PvErs who think they're some sort of higher life form when compared to PvP players, who apparently do nothing but drool incessantly as they furiously hammer the fire weapon command.

Believe it or not, and this may come as a shock to you, PvP players do not want easier unlocking of skills and runes so they can make teh Ubar p0wnzer of worlds. They want a competitive balance. Right now, what gear you have available can and does affect how you stack up in PvP. If Joe Air Elementalist has a Superior Air Rune and Steve Air Elementalist doesn't, then guess what? Steve is at a disadvantage against Joe if their two teams ever meet in combat, as Joe's abilities are now more damaging and thereby more effective, and no matter how good a player Steve is, barring the fact that Joe is an idiot, he cannot make up this numerical difference.

Then again, if Joe and Steve both have access to ability to maximize their numerical potential, then the ONLY thing that separates them is pure SKILL.
Personally, its a bit more rewarding to say you won because you're good at what you do, rather than you won because you happened to have a better rune/weapon mod/monkey defibulator than your opponent did.

In short, PvP players don't want everything handed to them. They want a fair competition, where skill (both at playing and building chars) is the deciding factor, not item.

You said something that is true and made sense, therefor you lost the thread

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Have you ever considered anger management? Or is the mere NOTION that *gasp*, not everyone shares your opinion really that difficult to comprehend to you?
Btw, how's your Internet connection from china, since you obviously have never heard of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Opinion?
Btw, I'm STILL waiting for you to show me where I said I loved grinding. Kinda hard when people ask you to prove something, isn't it?

Creston

lol. I'm just gonna leave this one alone.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Well I can really see what a pillar of mental acumen you are, what with you repeating the same invalid rhetoric into infinity, waiting for it to be true.

And here's the kicker. You've been playing this game for who knows how many weeks and it still hasn't hit you: The game's about skill. That's the test. That's the challenge. Not how many hours you have spent playing whack-a-mole. Now hush.

ofcourse the game is about skill....but if all you wanted was skill and skill alone why did you pick an RPG? why didn't you pick a game where the playing field was forced even...you're supposed to build your character..that's what an RPG is that's what RPG players do. The 'grind' is something you have to deal with...not that I see how this patch fixes anything. making the drops less frequent just makes it harder to get anything. therefore increasing the 'grind'.....like I said you're playing the wrong game...you're playing the wrong type of game...and so is anyone else that complains about having to do some 'grind'

Creston · Jun 09, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

lol. I'm just gonna leave this one alone.

Please, yes. Because obviously you have no answer.

Creston

Stur · Jun 09, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

I love RPGS, and if you ever put me, or any of the great games in this genre, even close to the word "grind", then the wrath of "random deity" shall strike thee down!

Role playing games are by definition a “grind”. If you want to blame someone for it blame gygax for designing D&D the way he did.
A, you start at first level
B, you go out and kill monsters
C, you gain levels for killing monsters and get to buy better stuff with their loot
D, you go out and kill stronger monsters
E, rinse and repeat

The story is very is very important in RPGs but it is not everything, a sense of accomplishment is just as important and of growth of your character from one thing to another. It is a keystone to every RPG ever designed. GW is moving away from that and catering to the instant gratification crowd. Even if that sense of accomplishment is an illusion(and I’m not saying its not) when you shatter it by making all the work just a waste of time because you can reproduce it in a few minutes in the newbie town and of course your going to have jaded players. I’m not jaded, I’ve said before, I got my moneys worth but I understand people who are.

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

ofcourse the game is about skill....but if all you wanted was skill and skill alone why did you pick an RPG? why didn't you pick a game where the playing field was forced even...you're supposed to build your character..that's what an RPG is that's what RPG players do. The 'grind' is something you have to deal with...not that I see how this patch fixes anything. making the drops less frequent just makes it harder to get anything. therefore increasing the 'grind'.....like I said you're playing the wrong game...you're playing the wrong type of game...and so is anyone else that complains about having to do some 'grind'

No, actually, I'm quite sure I'm playing the right game. At least, I was in beta. The 'grind' was something introduced afterwards, I guess to appeal to all people who couldn't measure up in PvP and needed a watered-down activity where they punch out robots and get rewarded for it.

My definition of "building a character" seems to differ from yours. See, I spent plenty of time "building my character" in beta GW... Experimenting with attributes, choosing weapons and armor, finding the best, most versatile and most efficient combination of skills I could bring to the table to compliment my team. That's what building a character means. Playing whack-a-mole until it tells you the numerical value that dictates your strength has increased by 1? No. That's something else.

GW is not a traditional RPG, and you're not going to get anywhere by trying to make it into one. I recommend you try some of the other fabulous choices on the RPG market.

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Please, yes. Because obviously you have no answer.

Creston

lmao. How do I answer something like that without shaming us all? Yeah, my connection from China is great, I'm here to oppress you and your foolish capitalista notions like Free Speech! TAKE THAT, CONSTITUTION!